Monday 19 December 2011

10 days to go...

So the clock is ticking and there are only 10 more days to go until Paul and I get on a plane and head off on our adventures! The last few weeks have been such a whirlwind of stuff happening! From end of (academic) year celebrations, to starting a job, to graduating, to preparing for Christmas and getting everything sorted for the trip, I feel like I have hardly had a moment's break. 


My graduation :)
But it has all been so exciting (barring some anxious moments with the skyrocketing exchange rate and the struggles of trying to adapt to a full 9am - 6pm working day)! I can't believe that the time has gone so fast and that it's nearly Christmas and then only 4 days later we leave! So much still to do! So little time... and I haven't even STARTED my Christmas shopping!


I'm very excited that on Wednesday my sister, Janine, is coming home :) It's going to be so great to spend a whole week with her before I leave! And I'm really looking forward for when she joins me in Denver and goes on staff at the YWAM base in a few months time.


If you would like to receive my monthly newsletters while I am away, please send me an email to spalser@gmail.com and I will add you to my mailing list. You can also subscribe to this blog by adding your email address on the left hand side under "Follow this Blog".

Friday 9 December 2011

UCT Allan Gray Academic Prize entry 2011

I got a rather interesting email three days ago:
"Your overall academic performance this year has put you in a position of eligibility to apply for the prestigious Academic Awards sponsored by Allan Gray. The top prizes are worth up to R25 000, so it is well worth taking the time to enter this competition. Note that if you are a winner of one of the prizes we will let you know on Tuesday 13th December and you will be invited to receive your award at the Ceremony at 17h30 on the 14th December."
And so I decided that I might as well give it a shot. Here is my response to the two questions that were posed: 

Q1: What are the qualities of an excellent leader and describe the experiences that have contributed to your leadership qualities?

An excellent leader is someone who leads not only by their words, but also by their actions. They live out what they tell others to do, without having double standards. They set a high standard for themselves and strive for excellence, but are also transparent and honest about their humanity and able to confess their failures and shortcomings. They live a life of integrity and those who follow them trust them with ease. An excellent leader is a visionary who can share their vision through their contagious passion. They inspire those around them and take time to build relationships with their followers. They are not aloof, but approachable. They support those under their leadership when they fail and encourage them to learn from their mistakes.

An excellent leader mentors people who show potential and spends time investing in those who may take over from them in the future. They enable their followers to develop new skills and to grow. They also allow others to stand on their shoulders and rise higher than them. An excellent leader is someone who is willing to both teach and learn. They never lose sight of the big picture and always keep in mind their objectives and goals. They provide a good structure which others can depend on, but allow for flexibility when needed. Finally, an excellent leader is able to laugh at their mistakes and see the lighter side of things. They bring humour at appropriate moments and draw out the best in those around them.

During school I was given a number of leadership opportunities, including being House Captain, Head of Orchestra, Head of Christian Union and on the SRC. I was also involved in leadership in church and community service. Retrospectively, I realise how often I fell short as a leader and that I failed to acknowledge my mistakes. I always believed that an excellent leader was one that set high standards for themselves and held to them constantly. Consequently, I pretended that I did not struggle and I covered up my faults. However, during my gap year I had the privilege of being under very inspiring leaders. Chris and Sarah trained and led my team on service opportunities around North and South America. What immediately drew me to them was their openness and honesty. They did not pretend to be perfect, but readily admitted their struggles and asked for support. I was amazed by how much this made me respect them.

They inspired me to be more than I ever thought I could be as an individual and a leader and I have aspired to put what I learnt from them and others into practice in my various leadership opportunities during university. I have subsequently worked with the youth in my community and in the Transkei; mentoring younger girls and running life-groups, amongst others. In addition, at UCT I was a class representative, tutor, society committee member and project leader. Throughout I endeavoured to always go above and beyond what was expected of me. I am so grateful for the inspiring leaders who helped me grow to where I am now, and I continue to seek others from whom I can learn and with which I can share what I have learnt.

Q2: What should business leaders be doing now to make the most of the world in 2021? 

One of the most important assets of a business is not the products or services, but the people. Thus the most important thing that I think business leaders should be doing now to make the most of the world in 2021 is to develop the promising young people connected with their business through mentorship and internship programs. They need to identify those with strong leadership potentials. These young people should not be seen simply as future leaders, but as current leaders. This is because the ability to lead is not determined by one’s rank, position or seniority, but by the way in which they inspire and impact others. As such, the identified young people need to be mobilised in their potential and given the freedom to lead in a way in which they can learn and grow from their mistakes. They should be given the opportunity to lead alongside established business leaders and to both learn from and teach them. Through this, business leaders can instil good values and leadership skills in those who will be shaping the business world in 2021. 

Wednesday 9 November 2011

The adventures to come in 2012

It's about time that I update you on the exciting plans that I have for next year! I forced myself not to focus too much on next year until my thesis was done. But now that it is, I get to be SUPER excited about what is to come and I want to share it with you :)
I'm planning on going back to YWAM Denver for the first 6 months of next year. This is something that I've been wanting to do since I was there in 2007 for my Gap year for a Discipleship Training School (DTS) and School of Biblical Foundations (SBF). God called me to YWAM Denver specifically so that I could do the School of Worship (SOW) there, but the timing clashed with Kirsty (my sister)'s wedding that year. So I had peace about coming home and doing my degree and going back to do it after I finish, which is now! 

SOW is only 3 months long (April - June), so I decided that if I was going to be setting aside a chunk of the year directly for growing in my relationship with God and my passions, I may as well make use of the time and do another school while I'm there. While God didn't directly call me to do another school like he did with SOW, he gave me peace that if I choose to do one he will bless me richly through the experience. I initially wanted to do the School of Evangelism (SOE), or WISE (Worship, Intercession, Spiritual Warfare and Evangelism) - as it is called at YWAM Denver, but the dates of that school got moved so it wasn't an option anymore. 

http://www.ywamdenver.org/
I then spent some time praying and looking into different options and eventually was led to the Community Development for Missions school (CDFM). At first I had some pride issues I needed to get over, as I thought that I would probably be able to teach them a lot of what would be taught in the school, having grown up in a third world country and being involved in missions over the years. For example, the annual trips that I go on with my church to the rural areas of Mthatha [See these blog posts (1) and (2)]. But God brought me to a place of recognizing my pride and realising the incredible way that doing this school would complement my academic studies and future work opportunities. 


I'm planning on doing my Masters in Computer Science in 2013, focusing on the area of ICT4D (Information and Communication Technology for Socio-Economic Development). I've done my Honours thesis (in collaboration with Learn to Earn) in this area. I really want to pursue this field of study and look at ways in which technology can be used and appropriated effectively to bring about change in poor communities. God pointed out that having an all-rounded understanding of Community Development will help make the technology that I develop more effective in changing peoples lives.

Here is an extract from the YWAM Denver website about what each school covers:
Our purpose is to raise-up worshippers who are passionate about Jesus and skillfully trained; those who will not only minister to God's heart, but will go into all the world with His high praises in their mouth and a two-edged sword in their hand (Psalm 149:6). As part of our program, each student will be taught on songwriting and given the opportunity to write and perform his or her own songs. Then, at the end of the quarter, several of these songs will be compiled into an album that is produced and released through YWAM Denver. 
http://www.ywamdenver.org/training/community-development-for-missions/
The School of Community Development For Missions is based on God's instruction for us to love our neighbor, help the poor and disciple the nations. The goal of CDFM is to equip missionaries with a skill-set in community development; and see communities around the world empowered to escape the trap of poverty and take control of their own lives. Students will learn key concepts in successful community development and be introduced to issues faced in developing countries. The school provides tools in community assessment and guidance on how to implement projects. A graduate of the school will be equipped with practical tools, resources and contacts to pursue their specific area of interest.

I will not be going on any outreaches after these schools, and as such they will simply be a training and equipping time for me to be more effective in the various ministries that God has called me to. I don't feel particularly called to full time missions at this stage, but I am open to it if God leads me in that way in the future. Right now, however, I recognise that I have a unique combination of technical skills and passion for seeing communities changed that God can use me in, even if it is in an academic setting. 
http://www.ywamdenver.org/training/compassion-dts/
I'm stoked to be able to say that my boyfriend, Paul, is planning on going to YWAM Denver too during the same time period to do a Compassions DTS. It has been a long journey for him to decide to do this and has been largely uninfluenced by my decision to go. I'm excited about what us both being in YWAM for this time may mean for our future. But I'm also very aware that this time is specifically for each of us to grow in our relationships with God first and foremost, and as a couple secondly. He is not a member of my church, Pinelands Baptist Church (PBC), so he is not asking for financial support from us, but I know that he would really appreciate our prayer support. His church, while backing him spiritually, are not willing to support him financially. As suchhe is following God very obediently and having to totally rely on God to provide for his school fees and living expenses. 

We will be leaving on 29 December and spending a week in England with family before heading to Denver on the 8th. CDFM and DTS both start on 9 January and SOW will run while Paul is on outreach. 
Paul and me
We would both absolutely love for you to support us in prayer during the adventure to come! If you would like to be added to a list of prayer supporters to receive our updates, please email me. I will also be posting regular update here, so you can subscribe (on the left hand panel) to these posts. If you would like to support us financially, please send me and email and I can send you more details. 

Sunday 14 August 2011

The Bride - an amazing evening with God and the United Pursuit Band

This week I've had the opportunity of worshiping with the United Pursuit Band twice, on Thursday with The Deep River and on Sunday night. And what amazing times they have been! I experienced so much love from God and I just am so so excited about the amazing journey that I'm on with him and all that he has in store for me in the future! One of these is that I'm heading back to YWAM Denver next year for two training schools. The first three months I'll be doing WISE (Worship, Intercession, Spiritual Warfare and Evangelism) and the second three months I'll be doing SOW (School of Worship). I'm totally amped! But I'll write more about what led me to this point and what all it'll entail in another post...


Right now I want to write about a picture that God showed me tonight during the song "Come Away" tonight at New Life Vineyard church in Cape Town. Now to be honest I don't really think in pictures so I don't really "see" pictures for people when I pray, I more get impressions or descriptions of images in my head. I seem to think in a much more "wordy" way than many other people... but anyway. So this song is playing and it's written as a song from God to us, so I let God just sing it to me and listened and relaxed and enjoyed it.

And while I had my eyes closed I SAW a really beautiful engagement ring. It was platinum with a huge beautifully cut solitaire diamond on top. And this wasn't just any ring, it was really special! And then I noticed that it was only one out of MANY and they were moving on a kind of conveyor belt. They were so many, yet it did not take away from the incredible beautiful and worth of each ring. And I just knew they were from Jesus to his Bride, the Church.


I was expecting to next see Jesus down on one knee offering me a ring, ready to place it on my finger. But instead I saw Jesus, arms outstretched on the cross; blood pouring, streaming down from his body. He was paying the ultimate price; the price that could afford each and every one of those rings and a million more. It's the price of my heart, my soul, my love, my redemption and my eternal salvation. Because of that blood, I am his beloved, his chosen one, and part of his Bride.


"Open up your heart and let me in
Come away with me
Come away
It's never too late
It's never too late
It's not too late for you 
I have a plan for you
I have a plan
It's going to be wild,
It's going to be great
It's going to be full of me"
I look forward with great expectancy for our marriage day when the Bridegroom, Jesus, comes down to be united with his Bride, the Church; when he returns to Earth in all his fullness to make everything new and to dwell among us forever.
www.aueysantos.com
"Open up your heart and let me in
I am aching with love for you"
 I also recorded one of my favourite United Pursuit songs, "Waterfall", on my phone. It was too beautiful a moment for me not to keep a memory. So here it is if you're interested.



Friday 8 July 2011

Last day of ministry in Mthatha!

Hi everyone :) this is another extract from a letter to my prayer partners describing what I've been up to lately here in Mthatha. I have also included a bit about what I will be doing over the next few days!
Thank you so much for your continued prayers. I have been so blessed to have you backing me through this trip.

I typed up this email before arriving at the village this morning, but could not send it due to connection issues.
"We are on the way to our last day of ministry at the moment. It's so sad that the week is already so close to being over. We have had such a great time with the people from Viedgiesville and Qweqwe so far! Friendships have been developed and strengthened and lives have been changed on our team as well.

Today my prayer is that we would be able to change lives forever through the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I'm praying that the teenage girls especially would experience Gods love tangibly and hear his voice. When we leave they will not be alone, and I pray that they will really feel God with them and his love for them throughout the rest of their lives.

Please pray that as we pray blessing over the kids and teenagers and adults, that they would really sense the Spirit coming on them and filling them." It was so sad to leave the kids today! But I'm grateful that we had the opportunity to minister to them and get to know them. I know that I will see some of them again in the future when I come back to Mthatha.

This afternoon we've been doing water distribution ministry again. It was awesome to see some of the same girls as yesterday who I met and made friends with. My Xhosa has improved so much since last year and I want to make a concerted effort to improve my vocal before the next time I come.

The other teams left early this afternoon, and it us quite wonderful to have more space here at the base. This evening we will be looking after PJ and Nathan, the kids of the missionaries at Sondela, so that they can go on a date with Ant and Sue. Tomorrow we are going to Hole in the Wall for a debrief and relaxing day. Please pray for us as we travel, as the roads have been very bad in previous years that we have gone.

We leave late morning on Sunday to drive to PE and then back to Cape Town at 5am on Monday (Janine's birthday). Please pray for safe travels and good unity for the team as we squash so close in the car.

Thank you for praying!

Tuesday 5 July 2011

First two ministry days in Mthatha

At the moment I'm in Mthatha, a rural area in South Africa, the traditional homeland of the Xhosa people. I'm here with my church on a missions trip, doing some community development, running a holiday club for kids and a discipleship program for youth. The rest of this post is an extract from my prayer request to my prayer partners. Feel free to read it and pray if God leads you to.

Our ministry times have been going quite well, without too many issues. Yesterday it took a while go gather some of the kids from the community, because word hadn't spread that we were coming. We took the time to walk around the village, praying and greeting the people as we went. Within about an hour we had a whole group of kids and were able to play games, do sport, sing songs, chat and run our holiday club program of worship, Bible story, memory verse and craft activity.

After the memory verse, I went out with the teenage girls and some of the leaders to chat. We did an icebreaker to get to know each other and explained why we were there and what we wanted to do. I gave them paper, and we asked them to write down questions that they wanted us to answer during the course of the week. Some of the questions broke my heart, like "what do I do when I'm in deep trouble?" and "what should I do if I have HIV?".

Today Emily spoke about healthy eating and how to look after your body well and focused on what to do if you have HIV. There is a shortage of Antiretrivirals in the area, and since the government officials take preference, the poorer clinics never receive any antiret supplies. There is no way for people here who have HIV to prevent it's development into AIDS and thus it is still a death sentence. The most heartbreaking question we got today, aside from "how do I help my friend with HIV?" and "is it ok for me to have sex with my boyfriend on a Sunday?", was "what can I do if my parents are forcing me to have sex for money?" I nearly cried when I read it! We cannot change the culture here in one week. We can't change the parents minds, the boys actions or the government presence. Trying to tell these girls that they have worth and purpose and are created in God's image and are loved by him just doesn't seem enough.

Please pray for incredible wisdom for us all. The teenage boys are also having a ministry time now during the kids program, and they asked questions about evolution and creation, because the school syllabus teachers such contradictions from the Bible.

The weather is also another concern. It has been VERY cold and the rain today prevented us from being able to do practical work this afternoon. Part of this time was going to be for water distribution, like we did yesterday, but obviously people didn't need water from us because of the rain. It's such a blessing to the nearby village that it's raining, as their water is off for the whole village. So I don't know if we should be praying for the rain to stop or not ;) Just pray that we will be able to be productive and find things to do to bless the missionaries here when we are not able to do the work that we had planned.

On a more personal note, I'm very grateful to have been able to wash my hair in warm water today as I havent been able to since Friday. I'm feeling very clean and happy! Praise God for another good nights sleep, and earplugs that enabled me to sleep through when some girls from the other team got up at 4:30am to shower! I've been able to rest get some much needed rest and personal space this afternoon and I'm feeling good. Please continue to pray for good sleep and good health :)

Tuesday 28 June 2011

Unconditional Love From Our Father

Justine and me
My church is running a Holiday Bible Club at the moment for kids in our community, and I've got the privilege of being a prayer partner for one of my bestest friends, Justine. Tonight we had a worship and prayer evening at the church and I am so grateful that I got to be a part of it. After about 45 mins of soaking in God's presence and receiving his love and loving him back while singing in worship to him, the team headed to the hall to spend some intimate time with God. I was so blessed to be able to play the piano and sing while Andrea led, and to have the opportunity to listen to God and pray blessings into and over the lives of the team members. The work that they are doing, loving the children, is so incredibly valuable!

One of the prayer stations tonight involved a time where the team members could read "The Father's Love Letter". This particularly caught my attention because we are planning on using this same love letter during our missions trip to Mthatha next week. I'm heading up the teenage girls ministry time. Part of our main vision is to show these girls that they have value and purpose and that they are not just sex objects. Our contact in the area said that nearly all of these girls have been raped and many would have had multiple abortions. I can't begin to image the trauma that they have been through! Who am I, coming from a loving and protective family in a safe suburb, to say anything to them about things such as sex, abortion, healthy eating and the value that God sees in their lives; the beauty that he created in them, despite all that may have happened to them?

Rebekah and me with some of the teenagers we worked with last year in Mthatha
What I do know about, however, is the love of God. And thus, the main thing we want to show these girls is God's heart of love for them. The absolute last thing that we want to do is bring more pain into these girls lives! No judgement, condemnation or shame. Just love. God's unconditional love. The love of a Father who has cried with them through every moment of pain in their lives. Every thing that has hurt them has hurt him too. I so badly want to show them that they ARE valuable. The DO matter. They ARE princesses and loved by the king of KINGS.


After my last post about the love letter that God wrote through me, I got a comment from a friend of mine who I have seen in a few years saying "I understand where you come from however it is far too lovey mushy dushy for me. I suppose we must be glad that God is many things, thus different for each of us." While I do agree that at times God can reveal himself differently to each of us, in accordance with what we're going through, the fundamentals of who God is NEVER changes. God IS love. And his love is for ALL of us. We just need to be willing to let him love us. How can it be love if it is forced on us? He lets us choose it. Below is the Father's Love Letter, an intimate message from God to you. And I really believe this is 100% true for every single person in the whole world. 

My Child,

You may not know me,
but I know everything about you. 

Psalm 139:1
I know when you sit down and when you rise up. 
Psalm 139:2
I am familiar with all your ways. 
Psalm 139:3
Even the very hairs on your head are numbered. 
Matthew 10:29-31
For you were made in my image. 
Genesis 1:27
In me you live and move and have your being.
Acts 17:28
For you are my offspring. 
Acts 17:28
I knew you even before you were conceived. 
Jeremiah 1:4-5
I chose you when I planned creation. 
Ephesians 1:11-12
You were not a mistake, 
for all your days are written in my book. 
Psalm 139:15-16
I determined the exact time of your birth 
and where you would live. 
Acts 17:26
You are fearfully and wonderfully made. 
Psalm 139:14
I knit you together in your mother's womb. 
Psalm 139:13
And brought you forth on the day you were born. 
Psalm 71:6
I have been misrepresented 
by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44
I am not distant and angry, 
but am the complete expression of love. 
1 John 4:16
And it is my desire to lavish my love on you. 
1 John 3:1
Simply because you are my child 
and I am your Father. 
1 John 3:1
I offer you more than your earthly father ever could. 
Matthew 7:11
For I am the perfect father. 
Matthew 5:48
Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand. 
James 1:17
For I am your provider and I meet all your needs. 
Matthew 6:31-33
My plan for your future has always been filled with hope. 
Jeremiah 29:11
Because I love you with an everlasting love. 
Jeremiah 31:3
My thoughts toward you are countless 
as the sand on the seashore.
Psalms 139:17-18
And I rejoice over you with singing. 
Zephaniah 3:17
I will never stop doing good to you. 
Jeremiah 32:40
For you are my treasured possession. 
Exodus 19:5
I desire to establish you
with all my heart and all my soul. 
Jeremiah 32:41
And I want to show you great and marvelous things. 
Jeremiah 33:3
If you seek me with all your heart, 
you will find me. 
Deuteronomy 4:29
Delight in me and I will give you 
the desires of your heart. 
Psalm 37:4
For it is I who gave you those desires. 
Philippians 2:13
I am able to do more for you 
than you could possibly imagine. 
Ephesians 3:20
For I am your greatest encourager. 
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
I am also the Father who comforts you 
in all your troubles. 
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
When you are brokenhearted, 
I am close to you. 
Psalm 34:18
As a shepherd carries a lamb, 
I have carried you close to my heart. 
Isaiah 40:11
One day I will wipe away 
every tear from your eyes. 
Revelation 21:3-4
And I'll take away all the pain 
you have suffered on this earth.
Revelation 21:3-4
I am your Father, and I love you 
even as I love my son, Jesus.
John 17:23
For in Jesus, my love for you is revealed. 
John 17:26
He is the exact representation of my being. 
Hebrews 1:3
He came to demonstrate that I am for you, 
not against you. 
Romans 8:31
And to tell you that I am not counting your sins.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled. 
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
His death was the ultimate expression 
of my love for you. 
1 John 4:10
I gave up everything I loved
that I might gain your love. 
Romans 8:31-32
If you receive the gift of my son Jesus, 
you receive me. 
1 John 2:23
And nothing will ever separate you 
from my love again.
Romans 8:38-39
Come home and I'll throw the biggest party 
heaven has ever seen.
Luke 15:7
I have always been Father, 
and will always be Father.
Ephesians 3:14-15
My question is…
Will you be my child? 
John 1:12-13
I am waiting for you. 
Luke 15:11-32


Love, Your Dad 
Almighty God

Father's Love Letter used by permission Father Heart Communications 

Friday 24 June 2011

Love letter from God


Song of Songs 8:6-7

"Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal over your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot wash it away. If one were to give all the wealth of his house for love, it would be utterly scorned."

Last night I was at church for a time of "Soaking Prayer", as we call it at Pinelands Baptist, but I suppose you could also call it chilling with God, listening to God, meditation, or whatever. It's so cool to come together with a group of other believers and just wait on God together and see what he has to say. The evening started off with Janine and I leading worship. I chose songs that would draw us into a place of surrender to God, asking for more of him in our lives and realizing that he won't stop pursuing us until he has ALL of our lives. So we spent 15 minutes singing Consuming Fire, More Love, More Power and You Won't Relent. Such wonderful songs!

Follow this we went into 30 minutes of quite before the Lord. For the first 20 mins there was gentle music playing, and the next 10 there was total silence. During this time I asked God what he wanted to say to me. Like I said in my last post, I get all muddled up if I try keep everything in my head, so I wrote down whatever I thought God may be saying. I'm going to write here part of the love letter that God wrote through me last night. I hope it blesses you.
 
"My love for you is like this (Song of Songs 8:6-7). It never fades or changes. It never fails. I stay the same always and forever. My love for you is all consuming. Nothing can quench it. It can never run out. It will never end or finish. Take this (love) as a seal on your heart and body. Let my love mark you.Let it set you apart. A love like this cannot leave you unchanged. The effect of my love on your life should be as evident as a tattoo across your heart or your arm.
 
Oh won't you let me love you? Let me fill you! Let me wash over you. Dive into this love that I have from you. You will never be the same again. I have so much more to give you. You have only just touched the surface. I want to go deeper with you. To take you to a whole new level.
 
I love you. Oh how I love you!"

Thursday 23 June 2011

The beginnings

So, thanks to the inspiration of my wonderful little sister, Janine, I've decided to start my own blog. I love writing, as I find it to be a really helpful form of mental processing. I'm not one of those people that process well by just thinking. There's just too much running around at the same time in my head and I get so side tracked. Being ADD doesn't help me much with that either. I'm often in the middle of trying to decide something important and then I get side tracked with some other random thought and forget where I was at.

So I find writing to be very therapeutic. I can see what I've already written when I get distracted, and read what I've written again and again if needed. Somehow it all makes sense once its down somewhere concrete.  I'm always so amazed at how much sense it makes when I read it, while in my head its all just a jumble. I feel so much relief from having something that's been in my mind for a while, OUT. Somehow, once I've written it somewhere, my brain is happy that it doesn't have to try keep it all inside my head all the time. 

So this is the beginnigs. I'll see how things go as to how much I write. I'm intending to use this much more next year, when I go back to YWAM (God willing!) for another two schools. But more on that another time...